Adventures of An Ethical Miscreant

I fully cannot be fucked to write a long response to this post because there are way too many flaws in it. This is why I’ve been putting it off for a few days. I’ll highlight a few that stood out. Followers: feel free to let me know anymore I missed.

1. ‘Militant vegans’ - you have never met or read a post by a ‘militant’ vegan, trust me. What you mean is ‘vegans who like to express their beliefs’ or, even better: ‘people who like to express their beliefs, who have different beliefs to me’. Your title is sensationalist.

2. ‘Slave labour’ - you mean poorly paid labour? Which is completely different to ‘slave’ labour. Sensationalism, again.

3. Alluding to the idea that vegans don’t care about human rights or farmers rights - where do you think a majority of crops go? To feed animals used as food. Food to feed food? Nah, that’s totally ‘green’ and not wasteful! So, even if your ideas of poorly paid immigrants working more in the industries supported by a vegan diet were true; you would still be shit out of luck because a majority of that ‘vegan food’ is going to feed the animals you are eating.

But, as it happens: far more poorly paid immigrants work in businesses surrounding animal agriculture: people who are better off do not want those jobs, killing animals and working in squalid conditions, and are able to not have to think of them as viable options.

What about the over 850 million starving people in the world. We have enough food to feed about 100 billion animals used for food each year but not enough to feed 6.7 billion people, who eat less than a lot of the animals being fed with that food? Come on, do the maths…


1. Agreed, some people don’t have to ‘luxury’ of refusing food but I think that is a moot point when you look at the bigger picture: the people supplying that food, which cannot be refused, entirely has the power to make that food vegan. Actually, a lot of organizations that provide food to starving people use vegan food because it’s cheaper and gives the starving people the nutrients they need.

2. The problems you mention for people who live in these ‘food deserts’ can apply to any type of food. You’re telling me that in these ‘food deserts’ they sell only meat products? They don’t sell any fresh produce? No tinned goods? No frozen vegetable based items? No nuts? Seeds? Gas station prices and smaller shop prices are usually inflated considerably, too. So, if you can afford to buy all of your items from stores like this then you can probably afford to get your food through other means. Not to mention how unhealthy you’d be: gas stations don’t exactly sell shit that’s good for you…

'Fresh produce spoils quickly' - Pretty quickly, yeah. Know what spoils even quicker? Meat products! If you can have food on hand with meat in it then you can have vegetable food on hand, too… And it'll last longer without refrigeration…

'Fresh produce is expensive' - I (and every other vegan I can think of) spends a lot less on food than then did when they were veggie or omni. It's unfair of you to base this assumption on expensive specialist stores; of course they are going to be more expensive, regardless of the things they sell. These places are not even close to being the only places you can buy vegan goods.

I have never thought that anyone should start a garden and I would be hard pressed to find someone who does think that that is a ‘cure all’ solution. Have you just made up this point so you could make the following point about keeping animals to make yourself look stupid?

See, to keep animals you have to feed them. That is food/money you could be using to feed yourself. You can’t live on meat, dairy and eggs for very long; you’re going to need some form of roughage at some point which, presumably, people obtain to prevent various long-term ailments; like death. So, if they can keep animals alive to exploit, why can’t they feed themselves? And if they are getting some vegetables to balance the diet out why can’t they get more from the same source? Are they being rationed? 

(Incidentally: Donald Watson [founder of The Vegan Society] was vegan during World War II. He was rationed. He stayed vegan).

3. Sometimes eating vegan can be cheaper than fast food, sometimes not. Fast food is incredibly cheap and, also, incredibly bad for you. If you have access to fast food you have access to vegetables. Can you tell me of a single place in the world where you can buy a McDonalds or a KFC and not a head of lettuce within reasonable distance?

'Can't just eat raw ingredients' - Yes, you can. You can't eat raw meat though, can you? So, if you can cook something with meat in, you can cook vegetables.

'It takes more produce/grains to fill you up than it does proteins' - That makes no sense; produce and grains contain protein.

'Cooking meals from scratch' - You don't need to be able to cook meals from scratch, at all. As we established earlier: you can eat raw ingredients. What 'many, many' parts of the world is cooking a privilege? Pretty sure all you need is an open flame and some crude containers which even the worlds poorest people have access to for the most part. Cooking meals is a big part of human culture and is usually handed down to each generation, this is true of the worlds richest and poorest. Like I said, you do not even need to be able to cook a meal from scratch; let alone spend 2 hours preparing a meal. Food can be as easy or complicated as you like/can handle.

'Spices, oils, etc…' - Really? You need that stuff to be able to cook? No, you don’t… I rarely use any of that stuff. I buy food as I need it and often find myself with no food in my house. I do not have a pantry. I am also pretty far from being in a life or death situation: you really think that someone who is starving or generally not very well off is going to refuse to cook themselves something because of a lack of spices?

More pertinently than that: what are these people cooking their meat based dishes in?

Also: $10-30 for olive oil? A few hundred dollars to ‘stock up’ on spices!? Where do you live!? I think your privilege is starting to show.

4. Making changes in you diet can have a huge impact on your life, but it doesn’t have to. If you’re not prone to needlessly sensationalising things then it’s pretty easy going. When most people decide to be vegan it is because they are able to see beyond themselves and understand that a little personal inconvenience is not a big deal if it means you’re not contributing to a world of pain and misery.

I’m sorry you had to plan ahead and take food out with you, that’s really terrible. Really, it’s more than understandable that you felt the need to pass your problems off onto animals and starving people around the world. I don’t need to worry about the pollution animal agriculture causes anymore; I can just rest easy knowing that you don’t have expend any effort into forward thinking and you’re safe and sound again in your self-absorbed little bubble.

'Allergies…' - Allergies are not an issue, they just take some effort. I know a fair few gluten intolerant vegans and vegans with other ailments. Personally, I have pretty severe digestion issues which make processing a vast majority of foods (including vegan foods) very painful. It would be easier for me to name the foods I can deal with more easily than I could name the foods that I can’t. I cope just fine being vegan.

'Malnourishment…' - A person on any diet can become malnourished. I don't know any vegans that take any kind of supplement and don't know any vegan who is malnourished or ever has been. I guarantee I know a fuck ton more vegans personally than you've even had contact with.

You know where malnourishment is a massive problem? Poor countries! You know, the ones that are home to the 850 million+ starving people we mentioned earlier? If you eat meat you are contributing to their starvation. Fact. Not only are you depriving them of food by feeding it to animals but many of these poor countries use their land to grow animal feed for export to wealthier countries! Happy days!

As you can see, it is just a matter of choice and effort. I don’t think anyone ever suggested that choice exists in a vacuum. Every choice has consequence and I think you should look more finely at the consequences your choices incur and expend a little effort into thinking about how veganism is an option for anyone instead of throwing the word ‘privilege’ around so much.

There are many, many reasons why people don’t go vegan but they always boil down to “apathy”, “laziness” and “selfishness”.

  1. g-a-n-g-u-r-o reblogged this from supervegan and added:
    I fully cannot be fucked to write a long response to this post because there are way too many flaws in it. This is why...
  2. quoilecanard said: Yup, you really are too awesome! Even without going into great detail you always have the best counterarguments. :)
  3. holysci-fi said: Your responses are always amazing.
  4. anotherveganpunk said: PREACH ON YOU DIVINE CREATURE.
  5. supervegan posted this