No, because everything your body requires is available from vegan sources. I don’t, nor do I know any vegan that does, take supplements regularly (and even when supplements are taken, it is usually for reasons that can afflict anyone like poor diet maintenance, illness, eating disorders, etc…).

I would be more concerned about the nutrient intake of most carnists, since animal-products are not the best sources of much of anything and contain a whole bunch of shit your body doesn’t want.

Why would it turn you off? Because the idea of taking a cruelty-free pill of condensed nutrients is somehow less desireable than consuming the violent death of a sentient being (presumably using ‘doing what’s ‘natural” for reasoning)?

If you’re friends with this fuck on Facebook: yeah, don’t be…

I wasn’t aware that vegetarianism helped with any of those things?

I’m fucking sick of militant carnist enforcers shoving their beliefs and propaganda down my throat…

tommyxvx:

I fucking despise the people in this world. I do what I can to change people, I try to help them understand that simply choosing to do something doesn’t make it a personal choice, I try to make them look at the world for a split fucking second as if it and all of its inhabitants didn’t belong to them, that just because you can take something doesn’t mean you should and it doesn’t make it okay. I try, but it’s like they’ve reached their conclusion before I even start and they cling to it no matter what is said, regardless of the evidence I submit. It’s infuriating to the point where reading some of their bullshit literally makes my eyes roll to the back of my head. I do my absolute best and so many walk away just as bad as they were when I started. And even when I am successful, it’s like every person I can get to see reason a hundred more take their place. 

I don’t know what to do anymore. I’m reduced to begging a god I don’t believe in to send another flood just so maybe the world would be less fucking awful for a while.

For a vast majority of the people you argue with it is a foregone conclusion, and that fucking sucks. But, think of how many people see your blog every day; how many people watch everything you post and don’t reblog, like or message you; how many of those people are fence-sitters and are open to the information instead of the yahooing dickbags you argue with with brick wall faces?

How many of those people have taken what you say onboard and changed accordingly? How many people have even messaged you for the first time telling you that they have been watching your blog and have gone vegan? How well respected are you in the vegan community, and how much do you think you shape the progression of existing vegans?

If you think about it, those aforementioned dickbags are doing veganism a great service: they are exposing shitty points in favour of carnism for people like you to shut down with more logic and evidence than they could ever muster.

Those lurkers and fence-sitters are paying attention and you are making a difference. Don’t ever fucking forget that.

freedominwickedness:

Those who advocate veganism as a moral mandate rather than a lifestyle choice argue that it is unethical for humans to eat meat or otherwise use animal products in any way because doing so causes pain and suffering to animals. A substantial number of mandatory vegans further extend this reasoning with the premise that distinguishing in any way between animals and humans is “speciesist” bigotry.

Moral veganism may sound compelling on first examination, but it is in fact an inherently oppressive and bigoted philosophy. It explicitly assigns the same moral value to animals as to vegan consumers, but implicitly assigns a much lower moral value to working-class agricultural laborers. Vegans declare that the suffering of animals is a social evil which must be stopped, but the suffering of human laborers is below their contempt. Furthermore, the working poor are told that they deserve to starve to death if they cannot afford a pricey vegan diet.

These hypocrisies are primarily functions of racism: virtually all vegans are middle-to-upper class whites, whereas both agricultural laborers and the working poor are primarily people of color. It is all too typical of whites to assume that “of course” everyone else has the same set of privileges that they do, so any option they prefer is something that can be strictly mandated for all. This is something that is also strongly seen with some organic food advocates, but moral mandate vegans take it to the greatest possible extreme.

Frankly, twisting social justice arguments and terminology to place animals over people of color the way moral mandate vegans do is disgusting.

As eaters of both meat and vegetables; please tell me what you/the general public are doing to benefit oppressed agricultural laborers?

I guess it is much more comfortable to scapegoat vegans though, right? That way you don’t have to worry about the moral/ethical/environmental/social implications of the way you live…

I don’t think I have even seen Tommy in the vegan tag, honestly. I mostly see food in there.

It depends on how I am feeling already. Plenty of times I just get mad that so much wisdom is being wasted on people with brick walls for heads. It’s partly empathy rage and partly rage at the futility of it all - if Tommy can’t get through to them, then how can I?

If it is not rage, it is more bewilderment. But, I know I have laughed at the especially idiotic ones.

(It probably doesn’t help that I am just pissed off 99% of the time anyway)

tommyxvx:

- Yes, meat is murder.

(More| More | Mo- Do you really need more? How is that not obvious?)

- Yes, dairy is rape.

(More | More | More)
(^ tw - worst encounter I’ve ever had on the internet) 

- Yes, animal enterprise is slavery.

(More | More | More)

Yes, it is. Yes, it fucking is.
What the fuck is wrong with you? 

tofujesus:

republicoflabia:

TW: anthropocentric bullshit, as far as the eye can see

splinteredinherhead:

tommyxvx:

splinteredinherhead:

republicoflabia:

tommyxvx:

In the United States alone an animal is killed every six seconds in the name of scientific experimentation. A holocaust the likes of which man has never known is taking place right before our very eyes. It’s up to you and I to put a stop to it. It’s up to you and I to make a change. It’s up to you and I to liberate.

A holocaust?

Go fuck yourself. Maybe I’d take you seriously if you didn’t equate animal deaths to the fucking holocaust. And also, some of those animals are dying so humans can have medicines so that humans can live and function and not be the ones testing out side effects of new drugs.

Dear fellow animal lovers.
Stop this.
Stop comparing mass killing to the Holocaust (I know that’s what you really mean when you say holocaust. You’re not fooling anyone). It’s not the same.
Also, while we’re at it stop saying animals are raped. 
I get it, you’re appealing to the emotional side of humans. You want us to feel angered at the suffering the animals are going through but when you use words such as these all you do is anger people.
It’s triggering, a lot of the time it’s racist, it’s privileged, it’s disingenuous - most people are aware of how these emotive words affect other people. 

First of all, those are lyrics to a song. 

Who ever sings this is an asshole.

Secondly, you’re right. It isn’t the same. It’s worse.

NO IT IS NOT WORSE AND DON’T YOU EVER SAY THAT AGAIN!

It is hundreds of thousands of times worse than the Holocaust. More deaths happen in one day for food than the entirety of the World War II, Holocaust included. Call it what the fuck you want, but to say that the 11 million deaths at the hands of Nazi Germany 70 years ago is in any way comparable to the 40 - 60 million deaths that happen every single day for your food is fucking abhorrent and astoundingly egotistical.

You know, I think it is quite amusing you didn’t jump me about this. But that might be because you know my family history, so you knew not to mess with me. But when you mess with people I follow AND RESPECT, then I pull out my guns and start firing.

great introduction, now everybody is scared to bring up their own points. you’ve successfully shut everyone up by spreading the fear that you will personally descend from the heavens and smite us with your glorious justice, should anyone ever dare to diagree with you. not. can we continue?

• Do not ever try to say that World War deaths (or any deaths for that matter) are the same thing as animal deaths! DO NOT EVER SAY THAT!

where is your argument? don’t like to hear it? i don’t care. a sentient animals’ death is a sentient animals’ death is a sentient animals’ death.

• It is in NO WAY the same as human deaths. AT ALL. END OF FUCKING STORY.

again, where is your argument? i’m sure i know where your attitude comes from and i’m ready to counter it with reason but in order for that to happen you need to form an argument, which is how debates work. it’s like they say:

if you have the facts – pound on the facts.
if you have the law – pound on the law.
if you have neither – pound on the table.

you act like a child in rage pounding on the table, sadly, that alone won’t impress anybody on here.

• Yes, teh animalz are dying, but did you know that sometimes they die FOR A GOOD REASON? Were you aware that animals are used as testers in scientific research for medicines and drugs? How would you feel if humans had to be used for this purpose instead?

were you aware that that is exactly what has happened during world war II? the only that things that have changed are the following: a) the victims species and b) there is now a gigantic corporate industry behind vivisection, generating billions of profit each year, repeating the same brutal and unnecessary tests on their victims, while not advancing human medicine in any way.

nazi germany may have lost the war but fascism has won it.

your argument seems to be that someone has got to be used for medical research, which is hateful and wrong. thankfully, we are not in the middle ages anymore and there are a number of victimless methods around.

also quit the downplaying, the attitude you flaunt, this-“it’s just animals”-bullshit (as clearly observable in your innane use of the word “teh”) is the same attitude that lead to the holocaust you’re all up in arms about. nazi germany did everything in their power, no matter how obscene or grotesque, in order to dehumanize the jewish people. in other words: to use the already established and universally accepted oppression and subjugation of animals, so they could carry out their genocide free of ethical qualms.

i can easily imagine german ss officers back then, spewing the same oppressive wording when confronted with criticism “yes bla bla teh jews are dying wah wah, but…”.

if there is such thing as a good reason to die for why don’t you go volunteer to advance medical research yourself? right, “just kill some animals instead, they’re worthless anyway”. ring any bells? 

• Animals can help to save the lives of hundreds and thousands of humans, either by testing and trialling drugs and pharmaceuticals, or by providing cells or body parts for research.

the results of animal experimentation are continually dismissed, some have even caused considerable harm, because they’re not applicable to human physiology. in order to advance human medicine we need to focus on alternative methods that are closer to actual human physique. these methods exist, and *gasp* aren’t hurting anybody. preposterous, am i right?

• By saying all of this bullshit you spew from your mouth you are actually turning animals into human-like creatures that are capable of everything that humans are capable of, and that is just not true.

“it’s just not true” coupled with a mild ad hominem – is that really the best argument you have? all you do is disagree in the most unreasonable, childish manner possible, how do expect your voice to ever be taken seriously?

any claims of anthropomorphization are invalid. humans are animals and animals are “human-like creatures”. we have more in common with many of them than you seem to believe. of course a beagle, the vivisectionists favourite breed, isn’t a human. does your mind work only in equalizations? why do you think he or she has to be human in order for their right to not be harmed and their right to freedom to even be considered?

if you really believe that animals have to be like humans in order to not be mercilessly slaughtered by more than 150 billion each year or to be ruthlessly experimented on, you must first define what it means to be human, the burden of proof lies with you.

every human is different. every human is of different intelligence and of different physical ability, so neither of these two attributes can be used as measuring rod. i know, humans love to pound on their intelligence, especially as a justification for killing and consuming other animals, it is rarely mentioned that a dog or a pig are of higher intelligence than a human toddler.

it is even rarer that we kill and consume a toddler over a pig or a dog for that reason, allthough it would be perfectly ok judging from the logic mentioned above.

• If you want any medication or if you need any kind of treatment for something that would have involved an animal dying or being tested, I hope you refuse it and die.

“i can’t refute anything you say, so please go die.”

• I also hope you never get a tattoo, because regardless of whether they use vegan ink, they still had to practice on pig flesh ~What a horrible tattoo artist~ OH WAIT!. You have tattoos already!

this might be shocking but many tattoo artists actually practice on fruit skin.

Do not fucking start with the rape thing. It is rape. It is 150%, irrefutably, very obviously rape. You do not know what the fuck you’re talking about. Look up what the dairy industry entails. It is rape, it is kidnapping, it is murder. End of discussion.

DON’T YOU DARE EVEN TRY TO EQUATE MY RAPE WITH THIS!

Animals are not raped. They are not raped. It is not the same thing and it is not rape.

Sometimes animals are forced to become pregnant by being placed in a paddock with a male animal, sometimes they are artificially inseminated - NEITHER OF THOSE THINGS CONSTITUTES RAPE!

yes they are raped, yes these things constitute rape and yes it is rape. your personal experience doesn’t erase another beings experience. read the information you are given and try to refute it if you think you can, or simply shut the fuck up forever.

plugging your ears and pretending you didn’t hear anything will never change facts.

You are a privileged male who will, statistically speaking, likely never be raped, and I do not ever wish it upon you. But by god, if you were, then you would realise that it is NOTHING the same as what you think it is in your fucked up head.

i won’t speak for tommy here. i will however say that sending such a generalized statement to someone whose personal circumstances you have zero knowledge about is pretty fucking stupid.

On the subject of kidnapping, I feel this is a bit of a fucking stretch. Animals are weaned off of their mothers when it is appropriate, but you are referring to the dairy industry here, so it is different.

I would like to point out that the calf is left with it’s mother for long enough for it to at least have it’s first drinks of milk (of which contain everything they need to survive, as the first few lactations are filled with different proteins and nutrition’s than normal) and is then removed and placed with other calves in a separate pen. Yes, there is not doubt in my mind that the mother and calf would grieve, but it is not kidnapping. That is a ridiculous statement to make.

the only thing i see you pointing out, over and over again, is that you have no idea what you are talking about. you have so little knowledge of anything related to animal enterprise and vivisection that i find myself baffled as to how you were able to rack up the confidence needed to join a serious debate over a serious matter. the only logical explanation i can find is that you must pretty damn mad.

mad enough to think that your aimless vitriol will make up for any arguments you fail to supply or any facts you choose to ignore. mad enough even, to think you are an expert on whatever topic you choose to intercept.

You are either uneducated on most of this or you’re a total asshole. Stop calling yourself an animal lover because you’ve made it clear that you have no compassion for non-human animals beyond wanting to keep one as an accessory.

The irony is that my friend here is actually very much an animal lover and she has every right to call herself one. She is very well educated and you assume because she is not as fucked up as you that she eats meat. WRONG.

is she also a child lover who eats children?

Typical internet vegan responds in a typical internet vegan manner.

There’s actually so much wrong with this I don’t know where to begin. 

ALSO.
I’d super love if people on the internet stopped assuming my diet because I don’t like the use of racism, classism and general asshole-ism.

I am appalled and disgusted that people like this exist. I am trying my fucking darndist to not be triggered and horrified that he has told me that my rape is the same as an animal being impregnated. I am sickened and shocked and am fast beginning to hate on vegans.

VEGANS —- SORT OUT YOUR PEOPLE! It is NOT my place to do it.

your experience was undoubtedly horrible, i have no reason to not believe you. it still does not erase other beings experiences and it also does not invalidate them. it does not give you a free pass to oppress and kill anyone else, human or nonhuman, nor does it grant you the right to be shielded from the misery you openly choose to cause.

if you want to indulge in denial and apathy so be it, but blaming me for the shit you do destroys logic.

I am now going to curl up and watch tv and eat my sausages. My delicious sausages. That are full of pig meat and flesh. And taste fucking amazing! But don’t worry Mr. Vegan-Straight-Edge-ANTIMUTHAFUCKIN’CHRIST, they are freedom farmed so the animal lived a great life! It just obviously suffered when it was slaughtered so I could eat it with some onion and sauce. Mmm. Pork!

freedom and farmed are mutually exclusive. giving someone a back rub before ramming a knife down their throat does not make you less of a murderer. taste is of no relevance otherwise we’d be eating humans, it is said they taste like pork or a sweeter version of beef. you never had any arguments to begin with.

“i have no facts but i pound on my human privilege, i will keep oppressing and killing animals and deny everything that conflicts with my anthropocentric and speciesist worldview just to spite you and to prove i’m right”

it’s hardly surprising that you still fail to see how all of this is not about tommy or me or any other vegan being better than you, it is about the animals.

educate yourself on the mentioned topics, form logical arguments, learn to debate, or prepare to embarrass yourself even further.

supervegan:

Nasum - Bullshit Tradition (Dropdead cover)

Lyrics:

Multinational death camp, and abattoir of greed
and you support the industry from the corpse on which you feed.
A legacy of suffering from a business built on pain
a history of butchery and I hold you to blame
you uphold the slaughter when you support the cause
A tradition wrapped in bloodshed and it’s no one’s fault but yours.

Fuck. Yes.

Most tobacco is not vegan. If you smoke it, knowing that it is not vegan: you are not vegan. That is not me deciding; that is just how it is…

The tobacco that is ‘vegan’ (by a purely ingredients-based definition) is still either tested on animals, or the parent company of the brand tests on animals.

I think the claim that nicotine is more addictive than heroin is skewed somewhat by the easy and legal acquisition of tobacco.

Tell them to do themselves, the animals and the people around them a favour and stop smoking.

hailxseitan:

This would be the fourth primate breeding facility in Florida, and it would be devastating news for Mauritius monkeys. Thousands of primates would be stolen from the wild so that they may suffer and die at the hands of sadistic researchers. Please contact the Hendry County Economic Development Council and the County Commission and politely request that they reject any proposal to establish this monkey breeding farm:

Tristan Chapman, Chairman Hendry County Board of County Commissioners E-mail: bocc3@hendryfla.net

Gregg Gillman, President Hendry County Economic Development Council E-mail: gregg@hendryedc.com

Chicago activists are urged to organize a focused, strategic campaign to stop this proposed cruelty in its tracks. If you are in the Chicago area and interested in coordinating with South Florida Smash HLS activists, please contact them immediately at railfront@gmail.com and they will be happy to assist you.

Everyone else, you sure as hell better repost and spread the world.

You don’t sound pathetic, dramatic or ‘pathetically dramatic’.

The burden of knowledge is a heavy one to bear; having the destructive, cruel ignorance of that knowledge thrust in your face; having your sensibilities disregarded and your feelings ignored, trivialised or made fun of; feeling out of place and alone in most social environments all day, every day, is fucking tough.

Try to be strong and beleive in yourself, you are doing a good thing; the right thing. Remember to be happy that you are not like them. Use the pain you feel for the animals to fuel you to help them, however you can. And if you need to cry: just fucking cry, don’t hold it back. I cry a lot and I rarely try to stop myself; why should I? Crying is a genuine (and appropriate) reaction to how we treat animals (and humans, and the planet…); why should we try to curb or dull those feelings? It is lack of empathetic feeling that causes most of the shit we’re crying about. I don’t see it as I am ‘too emotional’, or whatever, more that others have lost touch with their emotions.

How do I deal with it? I rant on here, mostly. I am very lucky to have Gem to rant with in person. Do you have anyone close to you who would listen? I sometimes rant to my mum (if it comes up when we speak, I don’t call her just to shout about stuff). I can’t really realate to her about veganism (she is veggie), but she listens to me and it helps. 

If you don’t feel as though you have anyone in your ‘real’ life, come online! The Tumblr vegan community is super friendly and isn’t the only place vegans visit. A bunch of us are on Facebook, then there is Volentia, the Vegan Forum and a bunch of other places you can go an connect with other vegans.

You can always come and talk to me, too. I am without a PC right now, so getting online for more than a few minutes isn’t always easy but I will reply when I can. Sometimes it is just good to write all the shit in your head out, even if nobody sees it.

Feel free to come off anon, I don’t respond to personal messages publicly and won’t respond to any message publicly if you ask me not to.

Thanks for the input.